Featuring David Gornoski and John Bazae, this electrifying conversation pulls back the curtain on one of the most overlooked forces shaping our world: imitation. Drawing from the groundbreaking insights of René Girard, they reveal how our desires are often borrowed—fueling rivalry, conflict, and endless cycles we rarely question.
But this isn’t just diagnosis—it’s an invitation. What if the way out isn’t more control, but better models? What if freedom begins when we become aware of who—and what—we’re imitating?
From culture and media to personal transformation, Gornoski and Bazae map a path out of chaos and into clarity. This is more than a conversation—it’s a wake-up call to reclaim your desire, your direction, and your freedom.